Twino BBG vs PG loans

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Twino has made an update in the loan product lineup they offer for investors, adding a new loan type “payment guarantee” to the previously existing “buyback guarantee” loan type. So what is the difference between the two?

As an investor…

For an investor payment guarantee allows for slightly more stable cash flow. Essentially when you used to invest into a loan, and it got delayed then the payment was made late when the BBG triggered. With the payment guarantee the idea is that the interest payments would always be made on time due to Twino taking a role in ensuring the payback. I’m honestly not sure how much of a difference it would be for most investors – the delay for BBG loans isn’t really that long most of the time.

However, this might be something that might encourage investors to lock their money into longer term loans since Twino is ensuring that regular interest payments happen. I’ve been allowing longer length loans into my portfolio for a while, and had no issues (a lot of them get bought back anyways, so there was no reason not to allow them in). Question now being though, which loans will be listed in the future with payback guarantee and which ones with buyback guarantee?

Another issue in addition to the potential loan lengths offered is the interest rates. It’s clear that the interest rates offered by Twino currently are a bit off, in the sense that there isn’t much difference between the short term (1 month) and the long term (24 month) loans. Payment guarantee is a potential tool that might allow them to differentiate between the two loan lengths, which is likely to result in the 1-month and other short term loan interest rates dropping (down to something like 7-8%).

As Twino…

The main benefit I see for Twino is twofold. Firstly, by encouraging investors to lock in their money into longer interest loans, it will allow them to manage incoming cashflow a lot better instead if having to rebalance it every month. I mean, as a CFO it must be much nicer to see steady predictions for the next 12-24 months instead of the next 1-3. Currently P2P investors are rather fickle, and switch between portals rather quickly.

Secondly, as mentioned, the potential interest rate drop. We’ve been seeing some testing on lowered interest rates in the previous weeks already, and clearly this trend is likely to continue. Since it’s obvious that there is enough of a supply of investors on the site (as evidenced by the fact that a lot of investors have cash piling up), then it’s reasonable for them to not overpay but to test what’s the sweet spot where they get enough financing, but don’t stop losing investors.

So the question is…

How long are the payment guarantee loans going to be? If they’re long term loans then it would make sense for them to keep their interest rate.

How high is the interest rate going to be? By providing investors with an extra layer of ‘security’, investors might be more relaxed about lower interest rates.

I haven’t managed to catch any payback guarantee loans on the market yet, but it’s definitely something to keep an eye on as they start appearing on the market since they might show an insight into future interest rates.

New Latvian and Lithuanian P2P sites

In the recent year, there have been quite a few new P2P sites launching in the Baltics, the majority of them from Latvia and Lithuania, and many of them following the buyback model and Mintos and Twino made popular. However, as it seems investors have quite a bit of money at hand, and getting into loans may not always be super easy, then having the chance to diversify is definitely nice. So, if you’re looking for some new platforms to look into, here are a few that have popped up in recent times.

Swaper (LV), buyback loans, balance sheet lender

SWAPER is the P2P side for Wandoo Finance Finance group, which gives out short term loans in Georgia and Poland, making them a balance sheet lender. The group itself seems to be made up of people who have worked in various other financial sector companies, but have found that P2P buyback is a viable model. Their home page is admittedly very light on information, still.

Viainvest (LV), buyback loans, balance sheet lender

VIAINVEST is a part of VIA SMS group – financial services provider operating across Europe since 2008 and the company currently operates in 5 countries and has grown into one of the leading European short-term lenders. They are a balance sheet lender (listing the loans they themselves have originated). Current total loans the group has originated – 288million euros.

Lenndy (LT), buyback loans, loan marketplace

The Lithuanian P2P portal lists pre-originated loans, making them a close match for Mintos‘ business model. They currently list three partners, but the amount of loans originated remains rather small – I think an issue might be with the regulations of the Lithuanian P2P market, which is very strict?

Bulkestate (LV), real estate crowdfunding

It’s interesting to see real estate portals, but they are of course far more difficult to kick off than loan-based sites. Bulkestate seems to be struggling with attracting people/projects, but it could potentially be a Latvian equivalent to CrowdEstate or Estateguru (but they better move quick before the Estonians manage more projects in Riga!)


 

Overall, it’s nice to see new platforms pop up, but they definitely have it much harder than the ones that came first – they have to prove that they have the knowledge, the volumes and the reliability that investors crave. However, due to higher risk levels, some of these also offer higher return rates, so it’s up to each investor to make up their own mind. I haven’t had a chance to test any of these sites out other than a cursory glance, but I hope that at least some of them do well and help increase P2P volumes in the Baltics.

Twino and Mintos, 1 year summary

I accidentally discovered that it’s been about a year since I started investing in the two Latvian P2P portals – Mintos and Twino. While in the beginning, I was mostly testing them out as a potential alternative to the Estonian Bondora, then a year later the situation has changed – I’ve fully exited Bondora on both my private and business portfolios and Mintos and Twino are steadily trucking on as the 3rd and 4th biggest P2P positions, providing steady interest returns with very little hassle.

Good sides:

  • Both Twino and Mintos offer impressive volumes (finishing December with 14mil and 18mil of loans originated, respectively), meaning that for most investors it’s not difficult to employ their money – with reasonable conditions it gets fully invested within an hour.
  • Steady communication and development have positioned them both as relative flagships on the Baltic market, inspiring several other followers (I’ve lost count of the amount of buyback based sites that have popped up recently).
  • Geographical diversity for loan originators provides an easy chance for investors to reduce risk by investing into loan markets other than their own (through OR I’m heavily invested into the Estonian consumer loan market already).
  • Easy-to-use and generally understandable interfaces and reporting systems make keeping track of your investments and changing settings relatively easy (unlike some other sites).
  • By far the most liquid part of my P2P investments, making it easy to cash out rather quickly if in need to reinvest somewhere else (so works as a good place to keep your “cash” position).

Reasons to worry:

  • Quick development also means effort of keeping track of changes – Mintos has gone through a lot of legal changes (relationships between Mintos and originators have changed) and Twino has gone through a full structural reform (with Finabay renamed to Twino and the structure flipped around).
  • Hands-off model also means lack of significant info on the risks of originators and potential losses; this being particularly true for the non-buyback loans which both have started to offer.
  • Sometimes problematic unannounced changes, which have got some deserved negative feedback from investors (mostly unannounced and not well communicated interest changes).
  • Influx of investor money means reduced returns long-term, with interest rates having averaged lower already within the year (while still remaining relatively high).

Overall I’d say I’m quite pleased with both these picks. In my portfolio they are the closest to a near-cash position that I have, and while I don’t focus on actively increasing the positions, then I add in 50-150 euros monthly, keeping them on track of hitting a combined 10K value within the not too distant future.

I’d definitely like to see how they manage with increased investor demand (since the longer the history the higher the trust, but the more money available the lower the interest rates), and hoping to start see some solid numbers on non-buyback loans (rather much like gambling to pick them up now without any significant recovery history to speak of).

Twino and Mintos are both making me 1 euro/day

I’m a fan of silly investment goals. Just aiming for the big goals 10K – 100K – 1M or anything of the sort is great in theory, but a bit demotivating at start, because the first big goals take the longest, and the big goals often seem so far off, that they seem impossible to achieve. So, take joy in the little things!

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Since the end of the year is nearing, then I’m starting to write in some final numbers to look over goals and returns for the year and I noticed that both Twino and Mintos portfolios are both earning just over 30 euros per month, which means an euro every day. It might seem small, but I mean – if you found an euro or two on the ground every day to work you’d be pretty happy, no? Also, that’s just enough to  buy a latte every day forever 😉

On a more serious note, both Twino and Mintos have clearly done well this year, finishing at 10M/month, which is finally starting to make the totals for P2P lending in the Baltics look nice. The ease of use, and lack of overall attention you need to pay on the investments is nice for any passive investor, but there are of course changes happening constantly that you should keep an eye out on.

Twino

Twino is by far the most hands off part of my P2P portfolio. Due to overall lack of any detailed info about clients, it’s as much of a set-and-forget as possible in P2P. It does seem like there is an increasingly large amount of investors’ money available because you’re unlikely to see any higher interest loans available listed on the market. I assume without an autobidder it’s near impossible to invest into them.

Overall, I’ve kept to my strategy of mainly 13% interest rate longer-length loans. Largely because I don’t see myself needing the money any time soon, and secondly because a large part of those loans gets bought back due to the buyback guarantee, meaning if I did need to get the money out it would be reasonably easy.

Mintos

Mintos however has been a bit more hands on. Since the interest rates that different loan originators offer change rather often, you must keep an eye out on what’s happening. This means tinkering a bit here and there with the interest rates in the autobidder and due to high demand for loans it’s rather difficult to get into them even with the autobidder set, it seems.

My recent strategy has been picking up loans on the secondary market. There are always people leaving the site and selling their investments, some people even sell things at a discount when they’re delayed (yes, even buyback loans), so there is potential there. It does however take some time, because you have to do the purchases manually.


Overall I can’t say that I have any big complaints about either of the sites. Current plan is to slowly keep increasing both portfolios until they are both bigger than my position in Bondora (which will happen rather soon), making them the 3rd and 4th biggest P2P positions in my portfolio (currently led by Omaraha and Crowdestate). Definitely nice to see good diversification options on the market!

 

Currently in the process of selling all of my Bondora investments

Times have been turbulent for Bondora for a while, and as someone who keeps an eye out for all kinds of changes in P2P investing, even I have managed to lose track of what Bondora is attempting to do. A while back I eliminated my private investing portfolio in Bondora, largely due to tax reasons, but I was still rather optimistic about their long term outlook, which meant that I built a company portfolio that I planned to run with a rather conservative strategy as a part of my p2p portfolio.

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To achieve a conservative portfolio I used an API solution that was self built, and picked loans that were only Estonian, and fell into the more conservative segment, focusing on loans up to C credit group. Within a couple of months I managed to build the portfolio up to about 5000 euros, and while the returns were on the lower end of my portfolio due to the changed risk evaluation policies I was OK with this, as I believed in the long term stability of the portfolio.

Then came all the changes. Firstly the DCA, which, while I understand was necessary was a PR disaster, even though we tried to do our best to help information spread through the investing podcast that we run. The final nail in the coffin, however, is turning out to be the thing that a lot of active investors, including myself, predicted would be the biggest issue – API investments cannot compete against portfolio managers, meaning as long as enough people turn on their autobidders being an active investor is close to impossible.

What this means, is that since the middle of October there has been a steep drop-off for loans, and as such, I have not received a single loan through API bids since October the 13th. Asking around, it seems like other investors are in the same boat as well, leaving only two options available. 1) turning on the automatic portfolio manager or 2) actively trading on the secondary market.

Fundamentally, I do not wish to passively invest in Bondora, which means that if I do turn on the autobidder, it will be just with some play money to test it. I’m just so confused at the direction that Bondora is moving towards – why build all the tools necessary for active investing and then actually make active investing impossible?

Unless the plan was to make API bidding viable for the secondary market only (where it seems to be quite successful). In that case, good luck to all the people making great deals on the secondary market, but I feel the amount of money I currently have in Bondora is not worth the effort of building up the level of statistical modelling which would be required for trading well on the secondary market.

Which means, I’ve slowly started to sell off my company portfolio’s loans, and will continue to do so until I manage to sell most of what I can at value, leaving maybe a small amount of money circulating to see what’s happening. Kind of sad, seeing as Bondora was the portal I started with, and I fundamentally liked their business ideas, but I think my investing ideals have just drifted very far apart from what they’re doing now. Lucky for me, though, there are multiple other viable offers on the market, meaning there is no reason for the money to sit idle!